I thought this might be helpful in an attempt to understand the conflict in Georgia. The United States can only stand by powerless to intervene, except by their "harsh criricism". Bush was treated like a genial fool by Putin at the Olympics and when French President Nicolas Sarkozy, who is also the present President of the European Union, tried to rebuke Putin at the games, Putin publicly bitch slapped the pompous little punk hyper president, who again, through his own personal vanity and inflated sense of self importance, squandered and further weakened the illusion of Frances influence. This is a conflict which need not to have occurred and was only fueled by the meddling of the west: 1801: Russian empire swallows up a large area of modern-day Georgia 1864: Abkhazia annexed by Russian empire 1918: Georgia declares independence 1921: Red Army invades and Georgia becomes a Soviet socialist republic. Abkhazia is named an autonomous Soviet socialist republic 1931: Stalin orders Abkhazia incorporated into the Georgian Soviet Socialist Republic 1989: About 20 Georgian pro-independence activists killed by Soviet troops in Tbilisi. Georgians and Ossetians clash over demands for greater autonomy for South Ossetia 1990: Zviad Gamsakhurdia, a nationalist politician, takes power in Georgia 1991: Georgian people vote overwhelmingly for independence in a referendum. Georgia leaves Soviet Union 1991: Gamsakhurdia elected president of Georgia 1992: Fighting breaks out in Tbilisi between government and opposition troops. Gamsakhurdia deposed and Eduard Shevardnadze takes power. Separatist troops in Abkhazia engage Georgian forces 1993: Georgian troops driven out of Abkhazia after fierce fighting 1994: Ceasefire signed between Tbilisi and Abkhaz separatists. Russian peacekeepers begin to patrol the disputed region 2001: Georgia and Abkhazia sign an agreement against the use of force in their dispute, but series of skirmishes later in the year 2003: Peaceful "Rose Revolution" leads to Shevardnadze's removal 2004 January: Mikheail Saakashvili wins presidential elections. Result not recognised by the autonomous southwestern area of Ajaria, whose leader Aslan Abashidze reacts by destroying a series of bridges connecting the area to the rest of Georgia. Saakashvili orders Abashidze to disarm his forces or face removal. Abashidze resigns May: Tbilisi refuses to recognise parliamentary elections held by South Ossetia. Tensions rise after Georgian troops take part in anti-smuggling manoeuvres in the disputed area August: Series of clashes between Georgian and South Ossetian soldiers. Abkhazia also holds elections, which are again unrecognised by Tbilisi 2005: South Ossetia rejects a Georgian offer of autonomy within Georgia. Saakashvili tells Abkhazia that no similar offer will be considered unless Georgian refugees are allowed to resettle in their former homes 2006 January: Main pipeline delivering Russian gas to Georgia damaged by an explosion on the Russian side of the border. Saakashvili blames Moscow and later accepts gas from Iran February: Georgian parliament votes unanimously for international peacekeepers to replace Russian forces in South Ossetia March: Georgia announces compensation package for displaced people who lost their property during the South Ossetia crisis May: Georgian and Abkhaz officials hold the first meeting of the UN-chaired joint co-ordinating council in Tbilisi since 2001. During the meeting, the Abkhaz side hands a new peace plan to Georgian side. Georgians submit their own Abkhaz peace plan to parliament June: International donor conference in Brussels pledges $12.6m towards rebuilding infrastructure in the Georgian-Ossetian conflict zone and adjacent areas November: South Ossetia holds referendum intended to reaffirm independence from Georgia. The West calls the vote illegal, but Russia says it should be respected 2007 March: Abkhazia holds parliamentary election, again condemned by Tbilisi as illegal. The results of the poll are inconclusive, electing only 18 members of the 35-seat parliament 2008 April: Abkhazian and Georgian troops come close to war July: Heightened tension between Georgia and Russia, with several explosions in Abkhazia. US warns Russia against stoking tensions in breakaway regions August 1: Heavy fighting breaks out in South Ossetia, killing six people and injuring seven. August 3: Hundreds of women and children are evacuated across the border to Russia August 8: Georgian tanks launch an attack on Tskhinvali, the capital of South Ossetia, killing at least 15 people. |
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Sunday, August 10, 2008
Georgia/Russia Timeline
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36 comments:
Thank you for the excellent historical timeline on this latest mess. I also note how Putin stands tall in comparison with the two dopes from France and America.
C-Span's Morning Journal led off this morning with the Georgia-Russia uprising and quite a few who called in said that the U.S. has no business talking tough to Russia after the mess we made in Iraq. Caller after caller said that we have enough problems right here in America than need to be addressed and our military has paid a high enough 'price' already for being aggressors.
One caller, however, citing his age [he was in Vietnam] disagreed with all of those others and went into a rage about how we never could trust the Russians and that we [US] have to help out the Georgians against 'this perpetual enemy of America.'
I suspected immediately that he was a neocon- it wasn't hard to do- but then, out of nowhere, he adds, 'and we have to protect Israel from its enemies!'
But wait, there is more: in conclusion this guy says, 'God made America to fight for freedom!'
Wow. A neocon-theocrat all rolled into one distasteful bundle.
There is more, lots more of information that will be disclosed in the next few days. It's under wraps now, but what were 150 American Military "advisors" doing in South Ossitia on August 8?
How did Georgia suddenly get the cash to increase it's military budget times 30 in the last few months?
McCain has been strangely silent on all this except to make a standard statement of comdemnation of the violence.
His top advisor is into this up to his nose. We were about to have our dog wagged but I think a Bear killed the doggie.....
Fascinating info that I doubt I'd find easily in mainstream news outlets. Why any leader in this day and age would think that bombing and killing is a good way to solve disputes is beyond my comprehension.
This is way more complicated and farther removed from reality than a simple dispute.
This is a manufactured "3 am call" and it is being spun as such by the American State Department.
Since the McCain Team, notably Randy Scheunemann is up to their noses in creating this mess, they will be very busy trying to spin their senile puppet to appear "on top" of the crisis.
Why did the President of Georgia, Shaaskavili get over a half hour of air time on Wolf Blitzer today to deliver his message of being the victim and he was only trying to bring freedom and democracy and peace to the region.
How was he planning to do that with a 30x inflated defense budget, playing "War Games" in the disputed South Ossetia region with 150 American military advisors?
The Russians have now blockaded the coastline of Georgia to prevent "un named" countries from supplying the Georgians with fresh arms.
http://war.georgia.su/
just see it
People of the world. You deceive! World mass media conduct propagation of a false information. Russia DID NOT ATTACK Georgia! 07.08.2008 at 22:00 Georgia has attacked South Ossetia. At 3:30 08.08.2008 tanks of the Georgian armies have entered into city Tskhinvali. Artillery bombardment all the day long proceeded, fights with use of tanks and heavy combat material, both against ossetic armies, and against peace inhabitants were conducted. 2000 civil people already were lost. The Russian peacemakers have arrived to South Ossetia in the evening 08.08.2008 for settlement of the conflict and prompting of the world in republic and protection of the Russian citizens living on territory of South Ossetia. Georgia has attacked South Ossetia on eve of Olympiad, it is top of cruelty and cynicism. Proofs and video-materials look on:
http://www.vesti.ru
http://www.rian.ru/
http://www.1tv.ru
The Russian must have laughed their asses off to hear Bush preaching "peace and restraint! I'm betting their first words were "get a load of this guy"!
-Sepp
http://ru.youtube.com/watch?v=cRl3qArJO-o
Hello!
My relatives live both in Tskhinvali and Gori (my father). I have been calling them all over these 3 days from Russia, where I'm now with my friends. Thanks God, all mine are alive and none wounded. Russian bombers were over Gori yesterday and day before yesterday, but they didn't target civilian objects. The pictures you see on TV from there are showing only two damaged houses, which were hit by the gunshells exploded on the Georgian military base, which was attacked by Russians in fact. There are several people injured and 2 killed in these houses, but that was not by bombs directly. What Saakashvilly says about hundreds of civilians dead or injured is not correct. Maybe he is reported so, but in fact most of the injured and killed were at military base in that moment. Some of them were not military, but servicing that base, which is supporting Georgian troops in Tskhinvally.
How did this really happen(from the witnesses in Gori and Tskhinvally):
August 7, late night:
Two brigades about 6,500 soldiers (infantry and tanks) with American trainers, and with support of ground missles and artillery started the attack of Tskhinvally. Later in the morning, the air strikes added to this. All of them had an order to "clean out the separatists from the region by the evening of 08/08 Friday latest". What I think, it was a plan to finish it during the Olympics openening, so that in the next morning they could report a "victory over separatist in one day", and none of the media would be interested in how it was done, as most of the world was watching Olympics show in Bejing. I think that was arranged and planned with help of Mrs.Rice, who visited Georgia just some weeks ago.
August 8, morning: Half of Tskhinvally ruined, most of buildings are under fire. Nobody evacuated. Bodies of men, women and children are on the streets (I have seen the videos, which no Western channels show) Southern part of the city is under Georgian troops control. 500 russian peacekeepers and not shooting as they possibly have no order from Moscow. Georgians are shooting everyone they see, including peacekeepers and children on the streets. I tried calling my cousine there, but she declined my calls several times, later sent a text: "We can't speak in the basements, as they through granades to the houses and basements once they hear a phone call or talk". Later, when she came to Vladikavlaz,Russia, she described awful and freightening scenes of Georgian shooting children and women, firing them, raping little girls after killing their mothers etc. It was a true nightmare in real!!! They were also attacked on the way to the Russian border. No wounded could be evacuated that day. I can't believe that this can happen in the country of Democracy and Freedom which Georgia reports to be... Are such things a part of Western Democracy values??? If so, we don't need it at all... Take it back with this sick president of Georgia. He studied in American university well, now we have no doubts in it. I saw a video one the one site taken by American soldier in the battle with his comments, so pls don't say that americans are not involved(I can send URl if you need)
August 8, about 14:00:
After reporting of nearly 1500 people killed and some of them are Russian citizens and peacekeepers, Russian troops enter the South Osetia through the Roki tunnel. Meanwhile in Tskhinvally two Georgian brigades are separated by Osetian defence troops(small, poorly equiped, but well organized) and Georgia with all their missles and numerous tanks can not take the small city, only 6 km(4 miles) long.
August, 9
After another night of fighting, Georgians still killing all the people which they can find in the ruined city, no matter military or civilians. They destroyed the only hospital, university and bakery. No food, no water, no help to the people there. Snipers are killing old people on the streets, who are slow and easy targeted. Russians take the nothern part of city, but still heavy fights and many Russian tanks are burning. Several aircrafts are shot down, seems that Georgian, but in Georgia reported to be Russian. Georgian TV says to the whole country that Tshinvally is under controlf of Georgian troops and the operation will soon be over. Russian TV shows the real picture from the battle field. It seems that many soldiers killed, but there are still many heavy fights.
Later Saakashvilly starts to blame "Russian Invaders, who attacked small Georgia".
Then I see him on many western channes, they also show ruined Tskhinvally streets, BUT SAYING THAT THESE ARE STREETS OF GEORGIAN TOWNS, AFTER RUSSIAN BOMBINGS, but these are OSETIAN streets, after GEORGIAN BOMBINGS and attacks. There are cars with russian numbers, russian signs and what is more important: russian soldiers, walking peacefully in"Georgian bombed towns". Do you think this is possible???
August 10: Tskhinvally is cleaned from Georgian troops (they always retreat when meet some resistance, this happened same 16 years ago and before). Saakashvilly says that he wants peace.
He difinitely wants now, after no forces left to attack. The mission complete! He is a victim of Russian bear(Medvedev is coming from word "bear" in russian... Everybody in the world is indignant by Russia bombing "poor little Georgia" with military budget of US$ 1 billion of American money during last year... But nobody remembers that they started killing women and children on last Thursday night, when everybody were asleep peacefully in their beds. Nobody knows that they has opened water pipe system to drown the rest of the poor people still hiding in the basements of Tskhinvally from the continuing missle and artillery attacks. This is how he want's peace. New wonderful and touchy show arranged by America.
To tell the truth, I blame all the journalists and media shareholders for this campaign. I understand that some of you must pay mortgage and loans and have to do everything to keep your job, but what you show to the world makes you an accomplice of all these numerous brutal murders, and all these raped and killed children and women will be your jury in Holy Court. If you believe in God, I beg you to stop lying about this tragedy... This is a big sin for your soul!! You are people, but not the beasts as those soldiers!!! So please stop helping all these bastards by supporting them in mass media, when you don't have even a common understanding of what really happend!!!
I think this historical timeline should probably begin some 6 years earlier:
In 1775 after diplomatic negotiations between the Ossetian elders and the governor of Astrakhan P. Krechetnikov in Mozdok, Ossetia became part of the Russian empire.
But Olga, in supplying this information, are you trying to make a point? Just curious.
So, South Ossetia has been a part of Russia since 1775.
After I fact check, I will add it to the timeline.
Thanks
omg, russia have conquared many countries in its history, so it means they dont have right to be independent ??
im happy that we have destroyed komunism in my country and that soviet union fell, but now with kgb agent as a prime minister ( president ) its back to those times. i hope west ( UE, usa
) will wake up and will solve this conlict.
ps. and those killed cofilans were live shilds defending military base i
presume ?
http://www.vesti.ru/videos?cid=2
http://en.rian.ru/
just see it
what ?? russian pr ??
2 Wojteq
Russian official mass-media. The your MASS-MEDIA so much mis(dez)inform you also
as usual, truth somewhere alongside
To wojteq...
Of course, you have your PR, we have ours.
1) There was no communism in USSR... It was socialism. Communism is unreal, it is "Utopia" and very good regime where everybody is happy.
And I'm also glad that there's no Soviet regime in Russia now.
2) "russia have conquared many countries in its history, so it means they dont have right to be independent ??"
Yes, they have a right to be independent. Georgia have independence. See how it uses independence.
Another historical fact:
1920: Genocide in South Ossetia by Georgian army. Zhordaniya ruled Georgia that times.
Some more questions:
Why doesn't Armenia or Azerbaijan have problems with Russia?
Have US a right to say something to Russia after they bombed peaceful citizens in Serbia?
Why is Saakashvilli so happy meeting Italian president if "Russians invades Georgia"?
If Kosovo (Serbian native land) can be independent, why South Ossetia and Abhazia can't?
1) can yuu tell me if you have freedom of press in russia ? i don't think so , so the news the your media give are not so accurate. i ts the same with gregorian news but there are also corespondents from other countries ;)
2)kosovo-the serbs have moved albanains there and they are minority now ( serbs ). i wasn't a big suporter of their independece, but they have more rights then osetia and abchazja.
3)georgia doesnt stand a chance against you so president S. search support in west and within EU.
4) and the whole official staff that your forces are peace kepping forces, give me a breake ;)
Microdot, I just thought that attempt to truly understand the conflict in Georgia may require much fuller coverage of historical facts than you proposed, and I suggested one as an example. I am sure that much more facts might be added to this timeline. For example, you omitted the whole 19-th century span of history of South Ossetia's relations with Georgia, and it contains a lot of clues to understanding what happened in this region in the 1990s.
In my opinion, choosing some facts and omitting other is by no means the method aimed at finding the truth and understanding, which (understanding) I hope is your point.
Probably you might suggest those who read your article and possess information about the history of the peoples of the Caucasus to contribute to this historical account and post you more facts.
Wojteq,
I dare to remind you that neither Georgia nor Ossetia have ever been "conquared" by Russia.
Regards,
olga
Olga
So how the hell Stalin become the ruler of ZSRR ?? he was from georgia as you know ;)
1783 - georgia was forced into russian empire...
impartial Russian reporter, being in Georgia: "A press-centre reminded a factory-kitchen me on feeding of western, Georgian and other friendly journalists, specially prepared misinformation."
link http://krig42.livejournal.com/#item116402
for translation use, for example, translate.google.com
Olga, thank you for your comments and information. I am aquiring an education as I write and read. I know about the American involvement in all of the ex Soviiet Republics and try to see behind the veil of mis information given by American media.
I admit that my understanding of the history of the region is far from complete. Your clarity is a help to me.
if you dont like american media microdot try european ;P
don't listen only to one side ;)
and read amybe about russian involvemnt in other parts of wolrld too ;)
its not only us,china but russia too ;)
Wojtek,
The Treaty of Georgievsk, signed on July 24, 1783, ratified in November of the same year. According to it the kingdom of K'art'lo-Kakhet'i was placed under protection of Russia. Main outer threats for Georgia at the time were Ottoman Empire, Persia and Lezghian raiders. There were many factors that forced king Erekle II to sign this treaty, including the wish to restore some of the lost territories, gain an opportunity of peaceful development of economy and trade.
;)
ok Olga :)
do you remember 1939 ;)
russian forces invade poland in order to protect "polish" citizens ;P
i hope i dont have to tell you what happened later ...
ps. the same in hungary, czechoslovakia in 50-60 ties..
wojteq, don't worry, I live in Europe and I get my news from every where.
I find American Media much more tightly controlled than French, but even France is beginning to run the same generic news service stuff on all channels.
I like Al Jazeera, it seems much more even handed and the professionalism makes CNN look like an amateur production by children.
Kosovo is Albanian now because Clinton supported the Albanian insurgency and bombed the Serbs who fought against it.
1)omg learn history , kosovo was the place where serbain state began, but than serbs moved albanians there, i'm not talking about clinton and etc, it was earlier.
2) french are very specyfic ;) there was always strong labour parties, and many suporters of russia ;)
3) when you talk about russia than ask people who felt its power..
wojteq, I would like to make it perfectly clear to you that I in no way support or favor Russia.
I think Vladimir Putin is a tyranical ex KGB Agent and has a near dictatorial role.
I have quite a lot of knowlege, much more than the average American of the history of Serbia.
I admire Russian culture and have tried to understand it's history.
I believe there is a very big difference between the monster that the over all tag of Communism evolved into and the practical ideas of Socialism.
I gather you think labor unions are wrong because they are socialist.
None the less, the purpose of this posting is to explore and discover all points of view and as many facts as possible regarding the confict in Georgia.
All I have to do is turn on CNN, The BBC, French News to see the propaganda of the west. It's the same but reported at different speeds on each network.
I am an American living in France, I am extremely critical of the French State and politics as well as America. I find Russia totally corrupt, in fact I find most politicians and governments corrupt on some level.
We are looking for the truth and popints of view.
"impartial Russian reporter" = oxymoron like "Military Intelligence"
Russia played the long game on this one... thinking a hundred moves ahead in the chess match, to maneuver this eventuality to happen. They've been spreading cash and material into the region for years and years.
Is Georgia completely clean in this? I don't think so... but to paint it as the bad guy on the word of Russia is just plain old dumb.
Russia has been killing off it's independent reporters for years, and it's also attacked Georgia several times in the past few years (shot down drones, shelled into the country claiming to shell "Chechen Rebels" who were never there, the list goes on and on.
One last note: To whoever it was who posted anonymously regarding people in the Ossetian capital and the Georgians killing everyone... if the US was truly doing that, there wouldn't be anyone left in the town, as they would clean house to house and not let all the people they keep showing on tv alive... sorry, but US is VERY efficient in urban combat and not letting an enemy in behind them.
very flawed argument...
Have I attempted to portray Ruussia as the good guy?
I have presented points of view that you don't see on CNN.
Paisley Pirate has done nothing more than repeat the American version of events slanted to his point of view.
Then to try to seal his point with the statement that if the US was involved, they would have killed every one is completly screwy statement.
That's how US is winning in Iraq?
Afghanistan? Killing every one to leave no witnesses?
Besides, it isn't the US Military and planners we are speaking of here, but over enthusiastic Georgian nationalist soldiers....
Keep it real, please!
"but over enthusiastic Georgian nationalist soldiers.... " what are you talking about ??
what would ypu do if your country would have been attacked ? i would fight with agressor with all my power, so i'm a nacionalist too ..
russia have suporteed separatist in this region and this is the fruit of its actions..
Mr. Wojteq, you seem to be responding to comments without actually having read them. The over enthusiasstic Georgian soldiers I was referring to were the ones conducting the initial action of this "War". The incident which triggered the Russian retaliation. The person who referred to himself as the Paisley Pirate had stated that if it were American Soldiers, they would have been much more thourough and have killed everyone so there would have been no witnesses of the atrocities they were committing.
You have made the mistake of thinking that I am someone you have to argue with. I have stated that I agree with many of your positions.
If you want to reply go ahead, but I think that any meaningful exchange is not possible anymore here.
You have never told me where you are from. Are you American? Eastern European? Just curious.
I lived in New York City for 25 years and was a rock musician and one of my best friends was a drummer who ended up moving to Krakow around the time the communist government fell.
He's still there, married with 2 kids. Someday I want to visit him.
Kraków is a baeutifull city, maybe you will like it ;)
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